Lip Service

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Lip Service is defined as : support for someone or something that is expressed by someone in words but that is not shown in that person’s actions.

Previously, it was the vaccine issue… pseudo-religious lip service about how Allah has created human beings as perfect and we don’t need any harmful vaccine for our newborns. (Gosh, even though in hindsight, that might not be a case of lip service. More like, a case of sheer stupidity)

In this case, I meant the lip service offered by so-called pious concerned public about the aurat of muslimahs in the healthcare settings in general, and in labour room in specific.

It’s a religious lip service because:

1)The same religious people who want only female doctors for themselves and their wives are also sometimes the same religious people who would make questionable religious statement that sounds like this: “A good wife is someone who will stay at home and take care of the kids, to raise them up as future khalifah of this world.” Sounds so nice, isn’t it?

– Your action of being derogatory towards working mothers is in CLEAR contradiction to your wish to see ONLY WOMEN DOCTORS being in-charge of your female family members. What? Don’t you think those female doctors have their own kids? You expect them to dance attendance on you 24/7 and leave their kids behind at home because your family needs them more?

 

2)The same religious men who think they sound religiously macho when they say “I want female doctors for my wife because her vagina is NOT for the delectable view of any other eyes but mine” are sometimes also the same men who don’t seem to really care being examined by female doctors for themselves. Hypocrite MUCH?

-I get it! You trust female doctors to not be affected by handsome men the way male doctors will be to beautiful women. Perhaps, in your religious estimation, males being clinically examined by female doctors are not as haram as females being clinically examined by male doctors?
– How about if we insist that we women doctors, do not want to examine male patients? It is not fair to women doctors that they are burdened to dance attendance on BOTH males and females… but their male counterparts are responsible to care for male patients only. And one minute ago, you tell me that you want women to bloody stay at home to fit your expectation of a good, pious wife.

– These people seem to think that at this moment in our healthcare scenario, we KKM doctors have the luxury to choose our specialty based on our gender? Sorry… we are talking about Malaysia. We don’t have unlimited resources like other rich developed countries. But, hey wait a minute, not ONE rich developed country has been able to guarantee that you will get the right doctor according to your gender. Because ‘right’ in the clinical sense, is about being adequately trained and competently able.. and THAT, is NOT gender-classified.

 

3)The same religious people who insist on being attended by female doctors only are sometimes the same people who suddenly think that being in hospital means that they don’t actually have to perform the five obligatory prayers.

– This is REAL!! Can anybody’s common sense of priority get any more warped than THIS?

 

4)What do these religious people say when we have female nurses attending male patients? Is that okay, now? You don’t feel the need to question it? To address it?

You know, it’s funny when people go around making rash statements that the government is stupid and only come up with half-baked policies that don’t even work and sometimes tend to backfire on them. It’s funny because our government is the reflection of our public. The public is stupid and expect stupid things without taking into account every little aspects of a good feasible policy and without the common sense of reality check. So government have to stoop to their level of stupidity to cater to their needs, in the hope of being voted again for the next term.

Stupid public and stupid government is JUST like the case of chicken and egg.

 

***

Now let me give you a scenario to ponder. This scenario is courtesy of my friend and my senior in Newcastle Uni – an O&G medical officer- who posted her thoughts on facebook. Dr. Arneza Syahila

said:

 

“One day, insyaAllah, Malaysia will provide just female doctors to all women in labour or women with obstetrics/gynae problems in all different parts of the country – in the city, in rural areas, in remote areas and deep deep in the jungle. One day… insyaAllah… one day.

But we haven’t come to that state yet. The reality now is such that, in some rural/remote areas, KKM can only provide one or two doctors in charge of that particular health site. One of them, or even both, can be male doctors.

Imagine if you go to that place for a holiday or balik kampung or whatever, all of sudden your wife faces an obstetric emergency that can be life threatening, and the only doctor available in that locality is a male doctor who cannot do anything because, too bad, he was not given the chance to deal with such emergency cases during his training as a houseman.. simply because male doctors were not allowed to deal with O&G patients in big hospitals. Yes, your wife’s life is in danger and you might lose her. 

Now, try to look at another perspective. Imagine your wife is the only female doctor in that locality with 2 other male colleagues. Obstetric emergency can happen at anytime of the day or night. If the other 2 male colleagues were not well-equipped to deal with obstetric emergencies, your wife has to be on-duty/oncall for 24 hours per day 356 days per year. Will you be happy?

As i said, one day Insya-Allah one day there will be plenty of female doctors in all different parts of the country (termasuk ceruk2 kampung, atas bukit dan di hujung hutan belantara). Just bear in mind, before we can have that luxury of female doctors, we need to accept the fact that public hospitals are teaching hospitals for all these trainee male doctors, so that they can be equipped with some knowledge and experience before they will be sent out to serve at any part of the country.

Trust me, most male doctors don’t even like being in the labour room. But they have to be there for the safety of their future patients.

Sincerely, 
An O&G MO / An ex-rural doctor

 

***

 

I am a woman doctor. Before I was a Psychiatric MO, I had gone through 6 postings in housemanship training. My first posting was in Obstetrics and Gynaecology.

And let me tell you this. You women may request only female doctors for yourselves. You men may request only female doctors for your wives. But not ALL of you will get what you wish for. You DO, of course, have the option of going to the private hospital and insist for it.

Before you huff and puff and storm off with holier-than-thou self-righteous ramblings, hear me out. I am a woman doctor. I am a Muslim doctor. And the last time I check, aurat is not just what is below the belt.

 

We understand that you are shy, but you don’t have to make it as though KKM (or government) or Muslim O&G doctors are not Islamic-conscious. You don’t have to make it as though you are the only pure Muslim around who cares about protecting the aurat of muslimahs out there.You don’t have to make it sound as though we CHOOSE to continue training male doctors in labor room out of sheer sadistic pleasure of making you squirm in acute embarrassment.

Because we don’t.

We continue to train all doctors regardless of gender in the field of obstetrics and gynaecology because we don’t have the luxury to send ONLY female doctors to every single nook and cranny of the countries – in a large amount of them, too, if your expectations is to be catered – simply so that your wife don’t have to suffer the embarrassment of being CLINICALLY attended by their male Muslim brothers. We continue to train all doctors regardless of gender in the field of Obs&Gyn so that when these doctors are sent to serve in the remote areas, they know enough basic knowledge and necessary procedures to be able to become safe doctors to the public over there – the public who don’t have the luxury of big city hospital to demand gender-specific doctor.

It’s for the sake of the public safety.

Your expectations should stand the test of reality check! Because, being religious is not just about making ‘hukum’.

Being religious is also hand to glove with being practical.

And what we are doing, is not even against the Islamic teaching in the first place. Ulama have debated over this issue a long time ago. When it is darurat, it is allowed for cross-gender interaction in the medical field. And nowadays, we practice chaperoning female patients with another female colleague. If you are questioning the state of darurah that we are having in the medical field after all I have said above, then I am done with you because you are obviously the sort who will never see reason.

All I want to say in this post is one thing: get off your high horse, oh you of pseudo-religious smartass! Your lip service can do nothing to save the public. You are making it worse for us, doctors and for them, patients.

Your pseudo-religious lip service is –metaphorically and literally – making the public sick.

83 thoughts on “Lip Service

  1. Lila

    Well said, Dr.!

    My first five checkups was with female Obgyn.
    Not so happy with their service so I changed doctor. With our limited budget, we can only afford this male Obgyn and boy, I was glad because he was a good doctor! In fact husband likes him very much!
    We have people telling us why male doctor?
    Here is why:

    1. The first female doctor was only money oriented.
    Hard to discuss anything because she was too busy attending patients. Or busy attending patients she likes. She did not check me thoroughly, though I had a bad stomach pain the first month.
    And she has some cases

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    1. Lila

      Sorry accidentally hit the button comment.

      OK i found out that the female doctor has been sued by her ex patients.
      Scary.

      2. The male doctor I chose, he is a specialist. He did perform VE to me and I was shy but there were five to six nurses who assist him and cheer for me so I feel less shy.

      3. There are good female doctors but our budget was limited. I do not have thousands in my bank. I cannot go to private hospital like PCMC or KPJ. I was told it was too late for me to go to KKIA and open the pink book so my choice was either medical centres or semi government hospital.
      I chose the hospital and never regret.

      Like

  2. Ben

    An excellent article but unfortunately,the people who need to read this would be the last to. And some of those religious bigots would probably not even understand English.

    Like

    1. wife of o&g doc

      I find it hard as it is being a spouse of a male O&G (long hours etc) that I mainly will be doing the car servicing, taking care of the kids’ affair etc– wonder how a husband of a female O&G is coping?

      Like

  3. Reblogged this on Ribbons & Stethocope and commented:
    Some guys demanded that only female doctors should attend to their wives to protect their modesty..:/ but the fact is.. honestly, i doubt if any male medical personnels would be turned on by the patients’ vagina when the patients are in labour.. X.x it looks kindna disgusting with anus flares open and the nauseating smell of blood, amniotic fluid , meconium, faeces and so on.. Definitely not a favourite place for us to be there but we are there to help, on call long hours and stays by the patients’ side just to keep the patients and their babies safe. And What do we get? Husbands that doubt our profesionalism and think male doctors enjoying seeing their wives’ v v?

    Like

      1. Will you, mr tang? With the smell in the labour, u want to get excited and high also hard..:/ these people need to think more thoroughly.. Keep having this suggestion just will lower down the morale of our male medical students.. Those interested in o and g also will feel like lose their interest now..

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  4. Saya mencadangkan rencana ini ditulis dalam Bahasa Melayu, agar orang awam dapat mengetahui situasi di hospital Malaysia sekarang.

    Honestly, when you’re in labour and your life’s in danger and you have no other doctor left, being shy is the least of your worries.

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  5. py

    Thanks a lot.this is really good.
    Firstly, amazed by your english. Thats right. Im a muslimat doctor to be…and im ready to hear the opinion from the other side.
    I thought that muslimah doctor for muslimah patient is good. And STILL thought so.
    In fact your article touched on something that ive never thought about.
    If we provide female doctors for female patients only, why dont we provide also male doctors only for male doctors?
    That’s so cool! In shaa Allah….one fine day..
    And I donot think that those female patients who ask for female doctors are being ‘pseudoreliguous’ like you said.
    My opinion, they’re just asking a way to stay protected as muslimat.
    I do not know too whether they perform solah or not while being warded but isnt it our job (in shaa Allah…my job too) to always notify them about the obligations and not just sitting and looking?
    You were right too when you said Islam is not about hukum and cross-gender interaction is allowed when it is in darurah situation. That’s where the practicality shown as evidence.
    And you’re also right to say that female doctors for female patients can only be done if we have the rich sources of female doctors to be. So..I guess we have another work to do…
    Encourage more female students to take medicine..so that we have more female doctors in the future. Then, in shaa Allah the plan for the sake of Allah will always be made easy by Him.
    Oh yes.to lina who commented before, im sorry for you that you have such a bad female doctors. In shaa Allah it will be a reminder for me to not being like those selfish doctors.
    Assalam and peace to all

    Like

    1. Another Ordinary doctor

      excuse py, i beg to differ on ur opinion, 1st of all i’m repeating ur own words ..”And I donot think that those female patients who ask for female doctors are being ‘pseudoreliguous’ like you said.
      My opinion, they’re just asking a way to stay protected as muslimat.” YES THEY ARE..! Full stop there… no hadis , not even in Quran mentioned once that only female Islam doctors are capable and good for muslimin patients.. more than often, most of the ladies are asking for muslim female doctors because oppression and pressure from their dear husband or after listening to some under-knowledge imam.. definately they are being “pseudorelegious”.. Infact u said that u are expecting things to be this way… its just so scary when thinking of having medical student like u are coming to work in Our Hospitals.. pls be prepared to think like a doctor and not like an Imam… Ur job is to take care the Patients and not on promoting Islamic agenda and wat not… only muslim ladies like u are bringing bad name to Islam.. especially when u are gonna be one of my collegues in years to come.. u cannot and simply cannot break the creativity and growth that can be developed by exchanging ideas between man and women… its just so sickening to even listening to ur arguments and ideas that u put up on ur comments above… thanks..

      Like

      1. Medical lecturer/Physician

        I just wonder..If you happen to be a female doctor and somehow need to be treated for something, and if you are given a choice, would you prefer a male or female doctor?.. even for just a simple abdominal examination?.. whats more breast exam.. VE.. bla.. bla.. of course I am not talking about life threatening emergency darurah kind of situation here..

        Pseudoreligious patients or whatever you call them… are not for you to judge.

        “Ur job is to take care the Patients and not on promoting Islamic agenda and wat not”…. – if you are a muslim doctor, I would be so ashamed to have you as my colleague.

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          1. doctor at health clinic

            don’t think negatively to our patients, try to understand them & be on their shoes when they request.. will we be requesting the same thing if we are in the same situation?..provide if we can & explain to them if cannot..of course they did not know the problem of shortage of female Dr in OnG ‘coz they are not in KKM & only a layman..even we also sometime did not know about other gvrmnt agencies situation..

            Like

        1. ashra

          Ya…totally agree with this statement.
          “Ur job is to take care the patients not on promoting islam agenda” –
          (if you are a ‘real’ muslimah..uhh.sorry to say that!)

          -once you choose to be a doc…to be a ‘muslimah’ doc..
          is already a ‘jihad’ in islam.

          -be proud..You are choosen by allah : for us, muslimah patients. Pahala itu yg akan bawa ke syurga. Jangan sampai kata2 dan ideologi kita menghilangkan keberkatan dalam bekerja.

          tuk siapa anda bekerja?..kalau kerana allah, this issue will be just a small matter to deal with the patients.

          i think..u r being too emotional dear.

          Emm…Rather than trying to make others see the reasons…why not, open our heart to see the beauty of islam.🙂

          ibadah and jihad……
          Towards protecting maruah and aurat muslimah.sedaya upaya…
          Kes darurat satu isu yg lain🙂
          Islam da pun gariskan…
          Antara darurat dan nyawa…islam suh pilih nyawa…

          Win win situation🙂

          Like

          1. ashra

            Btw..i do understand all ur points.🙂
            Rationalnye..mmg ada betul pun..cuma nasihat saya….kerjalah kerana ibadah dan jihad.

            Kita kan sesama muslimah🙂 siapa lagi yg nak faham wanita kalau bukan wanita itu sendiri.

            Like

          2. medicalstudent

            The problem is not on individual level, but on a country level. In government hospital we would try to cater to the patient’s need, but sometimes not all can get what they want. Doctors understand the patient’s need, but to make a petition as huge as this, without thinking the implication is simply ignorance. that is why before making any petition of such, that would make a huge impact, please do some research. In sya Allah one day, this will happen, in sya Allah. but now it is simply cannot be fulfilled. Of course as a muslim doctor our niat is only for Allah. But our niat is not the one in question here, it is can this petition be implemented. Even though we try to produce many female doctors, but they are not necessarily skillful and competent in O&G. the same reason as to why not everyone is a doctor, simply because not everyone can do it. Thus causing restricted resource in skillful and competent female O&G Doctors. Of course we understand the patient’s and the public’s point of view, but try to understand the doctor’s point of view as well. I am not saying u are wrong, I accept ur point and suggestion, but I don’t think this more of jihad and ibadah only. Though I am only a medical student in sya Allah I will be a medical doctor, with the hope that not only patient’s needs are being fulfilled but my needs as a female muslim medical doctor, a wife to my husband, a daughter to my parents, a mother to my children, a sister to my siblings and a friend to my friends can be fulfilled as well. in sya Allah. Rasullah s.a.w. telah bersabda yang bermaksud: “Tidak sempurna iman kamu sehinggalah kamu mengasihi saudara kamu sebagaimana kamu mengasihi diri kamu sendiri.

            Like

        2. A teacher

          Dear Mr/Ms Medical lecturer/physician, despite your qualifications (I am assuming you are a medical lecturer/physician) you seem to somewhat promoting same gender doctor for patient. What you did not appreciate is when these patients get what they wanted, there are some who become losers– your students and your patients. You can teach as much as you want about O&G or urology (male or female regardless), it will not be there for long as they did not practice it. In the end when they were pushed to attend a patient of different gender (as in emergency/ lacking of physicians), the patient will be another potential loser.

          I understand the worries that loomed patients in regards to visiting physicians of different gender. It’s embarrassing when someone of different gender examine your private parts and the physician of same gender would ease the shyness. But no doctors have complained that they have had enough with the dongle or the vv of patients from different gender. Do you not think for a slightest moment that doctors are embarrassed too? (Yea, I know, i know, doctors are professionals, they can handle almost every situation threw at them professionally and not be embarrassed. It’s hilarious to think about the irony)

          Maybe you are not from a teaching stream, maybe to you teaching etiquette comes later. The first thing we learn is DO NOT differentiate your students, neither by gender, race or religious beliefs. I am so sorry to say if you would be my colleague, I would be ashamed too.

          Like

          1. Medical lecturer/Physician

            You are being over-analytic and … emotionally disturbed??
            Anyway thank you for your reply comment.

            I am not promoting any gender-based patient-doctor, neither to the public nor to the medical students. My main key point above, NEVER JUDGE YOUR PATIENT and always put yourselves in the patients’ shoes!

            Any doctor SHOULD NOT or NEVER judge a patient for being a pseudoreligious (or rather their pseudoreligious spouse), just because they ask for the same gender doctor. If you can’t provide one ( or refuse to entertain to their request), you can always explain and tell them nicely and politely.

            How holier are we to judge them?

            Like

        3. BiruHijau

          TOTALLY agreed with you doc Medical lecturer/physician..

          biar saya tulis dlm bahasa melayu ya.. saya sebagai ibu yang bakal melahirkan rasa tersinggung.. istilah ‘pseudo’ itu bermaksud palsu.. dari konteks entri blog doktor di atas istilah ‘pseudoreligious’ itu membawa makna berpura2@ berlagak alim? adakah menyuarakan hasrat meminta pengamal perubatan wanita untuk memeriksa atau merawat saya semasa proses kelahiran atau pun pemeriksaan biasa itu dikira palsu atau berlagak alim?..

          pada saya itu sangat tidak adil.. malah boleh mendatangkan kemunafikan.. sila berhati2 dalam memberikan sesuatu istilah ya.. dikhuatiri boleh menimbulkan fitnah secara tidak sedar..

          saya ada sebilangan rakan2 yang berkerjaya sebagai doktor malah ada yang sudah bergelar doktor pakar juga.. tapi saya lihat mereka tidak pernah mendabik dada memeberi gelaran sekian2 kepada pesakit mahupun memperkecilkan permintaan pesakit mereka..

          pada saya siapa pun kita, haruslah berlapang dada dalam isu ini.. ibu bapa sekarang bukan macam dulu2.. sekarang ini maklumat sudah di hujung jari.. jika kami ibu2 yang bakal melahirkan boleh menimba sebanyak ilmu dalam proses melahirkan.. dan juga dalam ilmu keagamaan (walaupun diakui masih cetek).. dan cuba sedaya upaya untuk melindungi diri kami dari kemudaratan secara medikal dan juga rohani, apalah salah nya jika para doktor yang dihormati juga melakukan perkara yang sama.. tidak akan jatuh harga diri kita atau status profesionalisme kita jika kita menggabungjalinkan malah mengamalkan syariat islam dalam kerja buat kita..

          pada Another Ordinary Doctor.. islam bukan hanya pada nama.. bukan juga pemilik your so-called-under-knowledge-imam (nampak sgt awak ni suka perlekeh org kan..hati2..) ilmu Allah itu luas.. Ilmu juga milik Allah.. bila2 masa je Dia boleh tarik nikmat itu dari HambaNya.. (peringatan untuk diri sndiri juga)

          Like

        4. Ben

          If I am a female and I had a preference, of course I would choose a female doctor over a male in regards to any genitalia related health issues.
          But let’s be fair: why don’t we extend this to male patients as well? Male patients who have any genitalia related health issues, to be attended to by only male doctors and also male nurses. Then you get my vote. I know many cases of female doctors/nurses being groped by men regardless of their race and religion.
          The issue I have with the original “vote” was that it was one sided. I am sure you know in some countries, only men can drive, men can beat their wives, basically men can do no wrong.
          This is not about doctors being holier than thou, being judgmental etc. We are living in Malaysia where thank God, moderate Islam is being practiced. What next? Separate students, male and females?
          Dear Medical lecturer/physician, I am ashamed of having you as a member of this esteemed profession. No wonder the health profession in the country is going to the dogs, and you being a lecturer, I pity the students whom you are preaching to.

          Like

          1. See here, Ben. I agree with you about being fair to both genders with regards to them being able to choose gender-specific doctors according to their sexes. In this case, what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

            However I have very SERIOUS reservation about the manner in which you are trying to portray my religion here. I have no IDEA what do you mean by MODERATE Islam. I don’t think you have any idea what Islam is in the first place.

            And you are absolutely right when you said “IN SOME COUNTRIES” only men can drive cars and men can beat wives. I hope you can really appreciate that some countries’ national law has NOTHING to do with Islam.

            Just like the atrocities committed by communism in Malaya once, has nothing to do with being Chinese.

            So please….I only agree with you up to a point. And no further. I hope you will think twice before saying something you have no idea of. I invite you to study Islam.

            Some people are pseudo-religious and I cannot stand them.
            And some people are pseudo-intellectual and I cannot tolerate them.

            I hope you understand.

            Like

          2. DrK

            As a male doctor, I felt so ashamed reading you comment and definitely would refuse to work with some arrogant doctor like you. Poor patients to have you as their doctor

            No religion or country would allow men to beat their wives and you are talking about the religion that you know very little (or nothing at all). Your comment just showing your stupid atrophic brain and I see it pointless and nonsense.

            I am very much agree with medical lecturer/physician. Patient/relative may request anything they feel right for themselves. Then it is up to the doctor to handle it professionally. And I think that would be the basic teaching to be a doctor. Maybe your lecturer forgot to preach that to you. Sick.
            .

            Like

          3. a normal people

            No wonder the health profession in the country is going to the dogs, because there are so many egoistic and smug doctors like Ben.

            Like

      2. py

        Sorry.I’d never say tht I’m trying to break the creativity and growth that can be developed by exchanging ideas between men and women.in fact, I’d love to!
        Because men and women always have different point of views and…like what they said…complement to each other..
        That’s not a bad thing, really and it’s useful for students especially.
        Alright.lets be fair. I may not have the right to say much because I dont have the real experience yet.
        But seriously….im just saying my opinion or should I say it more clearly…my principle…and it is based on Islamic identity.
        Why? Why should I put Islam in my job? Because I’m a muslimat.
        And if you’re think that it’s scary to have me in your hospital, be prepared because I will come to your hospital and change it for better in shaa Allah.
        I do agree that these changes could not be done in a few years..
        That’s not logic. But why dont take first step then?
        Sometimes being logic is like being in a box..you feel safe and comfy there and refuse to change.
        A change for good isn’t a crime.
        I do realised about my job is to take care of patients..and not singing for sure.why would you think that I don’t realise that?
        It’s because I want them to feel better that I’ll ask them to pray always..and of course, not just praying.I will do my job.
        Oppression and pressure from their husbands….?
        After listening to some other under-knowledge imam….?
        Be careful there…you’re being judgemental too early…

        Like

        1. mdy

          harap2 sewaktu awakmed student awak x sentuh la ye patient lelaki. nnt awak atau patient terangsang kan susah. klu nk ubah, ubah dr med student. so now u x ikut prinsip abb nk degree? i wan see u boleh x pass exam tanpa examine patient lelaki. then after u grad we throw u to some rural kk when male patient datang with genital problem.

          Like

          1. Huh

            Setuju MDY. PY awak sentuh patient lelaki tak? Pernah kes doctor perempuan yg pseudoreligious, taknak sentuh pesakit lelaki punya scrotum, setakat tengok je lepastu bagi diagnosis….end up lelaki tu kena operate buang testes. Dan doctor tu kena saman. Nak jadi doctor, sila jadi doctor yg bertanggungjawab lah

            Like

          2. py

            To please you..
            Yes.I did touched male patients because of practical exam though at first I refused to do so in practical practices.
            And now I know you’ll think that I’m the type-cakap tak serupa bikin. I dont expect you to understand me and my life. I did that as my friends said that it is necessary for us to learn to diagnose everyone and we even had consulted ustaz ustazah. And I ask my friend whether it is possible to debate in here.and she said..you’ll finally get tired with those people who do not want to hear the other side.no aim is achieved then.o wait.maybe one is achieved. Because one of the comment said that muslims couldn’t understand English..so here I am..
            Commenting to fill my free time…thinking that freedom of opinion is allowed here. To mdy…no need for you to throw me…I’ll go there by myself and pray for me to go to egypt, Palestine and Syria..and wherever the place that needs my service in shaa Allah.
            People nowadays becoming a doctor with their own principle but no intention to help the world and I will not be like those! Morality and respect will always be my stand.

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          3. senior doc

            there are no such thing as pseudoreligious doctor. that was simply a malpractice.
            accusing others to be ‘pseudoreligious’ or ‘under knowledge imam’ are just too much. how more religious or knowledgeable that person to make such statement?

            Dear py. don’t worry of what these people think. Keep on your good values.

            I would suggest that all muslim doctor/medical student at least read or learn about Fiqh in Medicine. Then you will understand why this issue arise and be grateful that you are destined to be in this line.

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        2. py

          To senior doc.
          Thank you very much.may Allah bless you. We really need more encouraging senior doctors that can guide us in the hectic life of medical field.
          In shaa Allah…I’m trying to learn more about fiqh in medicine and we even had made some discussions with ustaz ustazah and more to come…
          Please pray for us to keep on the right track with the right intention.

          Like

  6. zainol ahmad

    excellent..however I noticed that the writer quite emotional when writing this article.really pleasure if you can keep calm 🙂

    peace no war🙂

    Like

    1. It’s exactly because I am emotional that I even bother to write. Had you been following my blog prior to this, you would have found out out that I wrote about things that I feel strongly about. Otherwise, why should I even bother. Writing is my way of letting off some steams. Always has been….and perhaps, always will be.

      And as a writer and a blogger, I know for a fact that having some nuance of emotion in your writing is exactly what makes a good read. If you want a monotonous boring discussion without the involvement of my emotion, then you should not read my blog and read a journal article instead.

      (Whoops….am I emotional again in this comment? Hahahh)

      Peace. No war.😛

      Like

  7. Salam everyone. Wow. Thank you for reading and commenting.
    Even though I may not reply to every comment but I DO read all of them because every comment will need to be approved by me. So rest assured your opinions are heard.

    I generally approve all comments unless it contains swear words or profanities.
    Thank you for coming.

    Like

  8. semua ni tak sepatutnya langsung jadi isu.
    orang tak faham sistem perkhidmatan kesihatan
    tak faham, tak tanya, tak (nak) ambil tahu,
    dan minta benda-benda tak realistik.

    well written, I like.

    Like

  9. onlyselflesslove

    Well written.. Couldn’t agree more.. I’m a female doctor myself.. A non Muslim n I have encountered such patients.. Or husbands who demanded for a female doctor to examine his wife. It may be possible during office hours but not during oncall period.. Sometimes not all cases can be attended by midwives.. N doctors do not get turned on when we examine our patients. We are there to do our job n nothing more. No one has the time to memorize how these genitalia look like.. Plus we see more than 50 per day.. That makes 250 per week! So public out there.. All u need to hope for is a responsible doctor who would care enough to do what’s best for ur wife n baby n not care too much abt their gender.

    Like

    1. Sometimes getting the doctor you prefer just isn’t possible. This happens with male patients as well – even when the problem is of a sensitive nature. I had the misfortune to suffer an injury to my groin and was rushed to hospital after-hours. The ER doctor who examined me was a women and so was the nurse. I was referred to the on call specialist (urologist and a man) who diagnosed extreme trauma to both my testicles and said that recovery was very unlikely and that they would have to be removed. As it turned out, the surgeon on call was a woman. As you can imagine I was a bit uncomfortable with the idea of a female doctor operating on my groin and removing my testicles. But, it was unavoidable. And so was the fact that the nurses changing my dressings were female as well. Anyway, I was in so much pain I didn’t care.

      Like

  10. Sorry tak bagi komen yg ade ayat yg bombastic tahap dahsyat nye language. Bytheway, my experience dlm labour room adalah dgn doktor perempuan, nurse perempuan, sume nye perempuan. Nice tak?
    Hospital kerajaan tu. Thus, murah n kalo keje kerajaan juga, bagi GL je free. Tp bile kene tahan lame2 dalam tu sblm tunggu post bukak. Yang doktor amik air kencing nak sukat tu yg tak besh tu, sbb tade doktor perempuan lain yg pakar bab tu. Dari doktor yg tolong pecahkan mentuban, check perut, sambut anak keluar, semua perempuan. Hospital kerajaan walaupun bangunan nampak lama, tp they trying to improve their services. Mungkin itu nasib saya dpt sume doktor perempuan. Tp mungkin bergantung kepada availability doktor mase tu. Waktu tu pun da tawakal habis2 da. Sbb keadaan keluarga pun tak mengizinkan utk ada duit yg beribu2 utk request swasta n doktor. Gune ape yang ade je. Bagi sy kene banyak berdoa n bile keadaan mendesak, n tak mampu, terima ape yang ade. Kalo nak request doktor perempuan kat kerajaan, klo ade, mg mereka usahakan. Dont worry. Macam sy, maaf ckp. Sy tak mampu, memang wat cara tak mampu, request lebih2 kang org menyampah. Asalkan still follow syariat.

    Like

  11. Sakit Perut

    Read again,

    Your opinion yang ada kat your question adalah hanya andaian you semata-mata. You tanya soalan, then you buat jawapan based on your own assumption. Like

    “men who don’t seem to really care being examined by female doctors for themselves”

    and so on.

    Like

  12. No double standard

    People can request whatever they want…with limited manpower and funding, Ministry of Health should be focussing on improving the current healthcare standard and making sure that the doctors are well trained (quality over quantity). Don’t be bias—if they want to allocate only female doctors for female patients in O&G–the same should be applicable throughout the hospital!

    Like

  13. Ipan

    Maaf cakap, isunya bukan berkenaan doktor bernafsu atau tak. (Merujuj kepada bbrp komen). Dalam keadaan tidak darurat melihat kepada aurat tetap berdosa walaupun tidak bernafsu.

    Isunya bagi pelajar atau ho, harus untuk melihat dan merawat kerana wujudnya darurat bagi pihak mereka. Adapun di pihak pesakit ianya berlainan. Selagi mana tiada keperluan maka belum sampai tahap darurat permintaan pesakit harus dipenuhi selagi mampu(kalau ada pilihan dan tak menyukarkan sesiapa).

    Janganlah dituduh mereka ini overzealous, pseudoreligous dan lain2 label. Saya sendiri pun jika rawatan melibatkan anggota sulit akan minta dirawat doktor lelaki. Sekiranya tak ada boleh shj dengan dr perempuan, yg penting kita dah berusaha.

    Like

  14. medical student

    Brilliant thoughts and even better writing. Sure am proud that u are working in our hosp. Yes it would be nice if every woman had only female docs examine her and perform her labour but that’s not possible in view of how busy it is in the labour room. And how are male docs ever going to learn id they are not given a chance? I think I the ‘niat’ or intention is right then there is nothing wrong with male docs conducting labour. They tend to be more gentle than women as well as they are afraid that they might hurt them by mistake. Men make really good O&G specialists anyways. Besides, labour is such a horror that I doubt any man would get turned on by it..the last thing on their mind at that time is hardly that, trust me.

    Like

  15. Noel Roy

    Stupid and idiocy petition.
    The world is moving forward and some people in this land still wants to live lije dumd struck retards.
    If you want your wife to be handled by a female doctor then pay ur ass up and go to private hospice that will cater to ass requirements.

    The article above is well said and good projection of some lame dummies want to seek great attention by coming up with lame thoughts.

    Disgusting Malaysians. (Not all though…)

    Like

    1. Your comment wouldn’t increase in its merits by the use of the word ‘ass’ – in fact it decreases in value quite considerably,

      As I said in my post above. Women can request for female doctors to handle them. And men can request for female doctors to handle their wives. But not ALL of them will get what they request.

      Requesting for a service is not a crime. Insisting for it in an annoying manner while accusing the doctors of not being religious is what I am against.

      And really, the last phrase that you ditch about Malaysian is more emotional than factual. I hope next time, you will deign to comment in a civilized manner. Otherwise, I will have no choice but to consign your offensive comment to the bin.

      Thank you for coming

      Like

  16. Salam Cikpuan Afiza Azmee yang dirahmati Allah🙂

    Perkongsian cikpuan membuka mata hati saya mengenai keadaan sebenar di sebalik isu doktor wanita untuk pesakit wanita. Ya, saya pernah mendapat khidmat doktor di hospital kerajaan.Kena tunggu lama nak jumpa doktor. Memang tidak dapat dinafikan seorang doktor terpaksa menangani begitu ramai pesakit sedangkan kalau diikutkan logik, memang tak bagus.

    Saya setuju pandangan cikpuan dalam artikel ini. Selagi mana mengamalkan etika kerja dengan terbaik, insyallah, tidak timbul isu ini.

    Isu ini boleh diselesaikan jika pihak kerajaan dan lain lain dapat tingkatkan benefit dan kemudahan untuk semua doktor dan bakal doktor wanita. Jika ini dapat dilakukan, saya yakin tiada siapa lagi akan bangkitkan petition ini.

    Jika saya sudah beristeri kelak, saya akan pastikan isteri mendapat servis first class tidak kira doktor lelaki atau doktor wanita. Kalau doktor lelaki, maybe saya boleh jadi kawan kepada doktor.hehe. Jika doktor wanita, saya boleh belajar sumthing daripada beliau. hehe

    Puan Lila, terima kasih ya puan kerana sharekan pengalaman puan tadi. Saya gembira kerana masih ada doktor lelaki yang sangat profesional dan mengamalkan kod kerjanya dengan cemerlang. Saya seronok membacanya.

    Terima kasih Cikpuan Afiza sudi kongsikan “real life” mengenai doktor wanita. Saya amat hargainya.

    p/s: sorry sebab tulis panjang benor komen saya ni.hehe

    Like

  17. People out there don’t have the idea about the real situation in government hospitals.

    Wujudkan pencerahan yang mudah dicapai dan difahami masyarakat, insyaAllah mungkin selepas itu masyarakat kita makin memahami.

    Ini biasa, pada saat masyarakat mula mahu celik agama, mereka akan concern dengan perkara seperti ini. Tapi sayangnya tidak kaji sedalam mungkin untuk dijadikan isu. Maka jadilah seperti ini.

    Like

  18. The Barnacle

    There’s two kind of person that we will face in life, first is the one you can be reasoned with, the other one is the one who closes his/her eyes or ear to reason, that second kind of person you will no be able to help them because they refused to hear your reasons even though that will save their lives……

    Like

  19. someone

    I understand the reasons that you are trying to convey here. However, I don’t think that your way of reasoning is fair because you somehow some sort of generalizing all of those “pseudo-religious” people as ignorant people who don’t mind about being treated by opposite gender doctors or performing prayers. You started your argument by condemning people, instead of decently explaining to them the reasons male doctors are also needed in this field. If you were to verbalize your entry by speaking it out loud to those who disagree with cross-gender interaction in the medical practice, I think that they will stop listening to you before you start delivering the scenario provided by Dr. Arneza. What I want to point out here is that, there’s no need to criticize people and use harsh words in presenting your argument. It is much easier to win people’s hearts with kind words. Perhaps, that will make them to understand doctors’ situation in O&G departments especially.

    Like

  20. medical student

    For anyone that argued normal delivery is not darurat, mind you, my prof. once said, a women in labor means that one of her leg is already in tomb

    Like

    1. wife of male o&g

      Women in labour is a DARURAT. otherwise takder lah ‘syurga di bawah tapak kaki ibu’ + ‘jika meninggal dikira syahid’ – the doctor could lose either the baby or the mother or both at any given time. People who didn’t think that as darurat maybe never experience giving birth herself yet…

      Like

        1. ashra

          Terima kasih kepada dr.harlina siraj atas maklumbalas terhadap penulisan artikel dlm blog ni.

          Alhamdulillah..Inilah sebaik2 jawapan tuk ‘educate’ orang awam/pesakit dalam isu aurat wanita bersalin.

          ‘Judging’ atau menjatuhkan hukuman kepada pesakit wanita terutama di wad bersalin bukanlah satu penulisan yang baik dari seorang doktor muslimah terutama penulisan doktor muda yg lebih kepada emosi.

          Kerjaya sebagai doktor itu sendiri lebih menuntut sikap profesional mereka untuk beri ilmu kepada pesakit sebelum pesakit mampu memahami situasi yang berlaku dalam bidang perubatan dan hospital. Apatah lagi meminta kita terlebih dahulu memahami tugasan/peranan setiap pekerja hospital.

          Mudahan perkongsian ini akan memberi manfaat kepada kita semua : pesakit muslimah dan suaminya serta doktor2 muda dalam mengutarakan pendapat.

          Agama dan perubatan lebih molek digandingkan seiring.🙂 islam itu indah.
          Usahlah kita sesama islam berbalah isu berkait agama untuk meraih sokongan dan nilai di sisi manusia.

          Malu aihhh…bila non muslim membacanya lalu melabelkan islam agama yang sangat berat untuk tuntutan dipenuhi.

          Like

          1. N

            I read both, & I think both writers are delivering the same essence and main points. Different styles maybe, but nonetheless still the same.

            Im not a doctor, im a muslim female pt. But as much as we want female doctors to attend us, competency is most unfortunately not gender-oriented and I would rather let myself be in the good hands of a male doctor of adequate competency n knows what hes doing rather than in the hands of a female doctor whos not-so-competent simply because she’s a female. Because even a simple delivery that some say not ‘darurat’ could turn complicated and this is something we have no way of knowing.

            And i do not want to even imagine being in the situation like the doctor laid out; having an ong emergency while only a male doctor is available and yet he said sorry i dont know what to do because i was not allowed to train ong last time. Can we,society, even at that point of time, accept this kind of answer? I bet not.
            So i think it’s wiser to not demand something that may lead to a move we all will regret later.
            🙂

            Like

  21. just a med student

    A really good insight from our local doctor, really proud to have you here. I do not know whether we will one day can afford to treat patients while tending to their specific doctor preferences. But to me, it’s always good to fully equip our male doctors with proper knowledge about O&G, even when such day comes where we have plenty of female docs. I agree that patients should be allowed to ask for specific gender of doctors but what’s bothering me is the increasing trend of doubting the doctors professionalism regarding the issue, as evidenced by the petition. And these people are currently questioning the need for male medical students to be trained in O&G because apparently learning is not exactly darurah.

    Like you said- lip service, really it’s easier to demand than to provide proper actions. Lots of people are even suggesting that specialised maternal hospital to be constructed which consists of all female doctors and supportive staffs. Even when we have a lot of female doctors, another issue will arise that not all of them would want to work in O&G, and what should we do with all these male m.o’s & specialists who have been in the field for so long and become experienced, basically did it for a living.

    It’s really crazy such issue could become a really big hype, perhaps someone should start a petition that all pseudoreligious males who want to be married should be trained in O&G and child labour so that “only he can see his wife’s private parts”. Read on how many women died from labour before modern medicine came along. People should be grateful that we generally always have enough docs to attend their wives

    Like

  22. kokei

    Salam..

    Doct ni mcm baru lepas kena bambu dgn sombody yg salah masuk tempat nk besalin ni.
    masuk spital gomen, demand pulak nk doct/nurse pompuan…

    Klu dah masuk spital gomen tu buat la cara mcm spital gomen.. ni g deman2 pulak…
    nk demand g la spital swasta yg offer doct pmpuan only. xmampu? xda duit? memang pon bkn suma org ada luxury utk pg spital mcm ni…
    ok ni baru la reason petition ni dibuat.. utk increase awareness ke pak2 menteri utk tambah resource doct pmpuan SPECIFIC utk handle kes2 hamil. itu jer..

    Mcm mane nk buat bg ckup/prepare resource? pak menteri pikir2 la keje diorang kot. pand bnde ni amek masa utk buat. ingat senang ker nk prepare doct pompuan? mau makan 5-6 taun bhai. xtau la aku pn xpenah amek medic so agak2 jer. maybe anak2 aku nnti dapat rase paedah klu rmai doct pmpuan handle kes hamil.. g jer spital gomen dah mmg ade doct pmpuan utk rawat.

    Core Problem nye skang ni,

    1) Staff/Doct Pmpuan utk handle kes hamil xckup lagi kt Msia. short term mmg ssh nk bg solution…
    2) Org ramai yg pnya expectation utk dapat doct pmpuan everytime ade kes hamil and ditambah lagi dgn pandangan setengah org yg HARAM utk doct laki handle. Ini secara xlangsung create stress utk doct2 yg handle kes hamil skang. they just do their job as a doctor!

    HARAM mmg haram tp under darurat nk buat mcm mane. (but this is something yg bole prevent, why not go for it? )

    sekadar pandangan…

    Wsalam.

    Like

  23. Just Another Medical Student

    I hope that the public knows that if they let a male medical student/doctor into the labour suite and he learn something from it, they are actually doing amal jariah. They help create a better trained dr. Who knows that next time, the same medical student/doctor will be attending her or daughter later? By that time they would want a competent doctor, wouldn’t they? Can’t really be a good doctor without these exposure… I’m really thankful and grateful to my patients who help me through my journey as a future Doctor.. I am grateful they understand the need for me to learn from them. I wish them the best in life!

    Like

    1. senior doc

      I am relieved. At least we have one good and humble medical student here. I believe and hope many more are like you outside there.

      Good attitude is equally important as a good skill. Appreciate and respect your patients wishes, Insha Allah they will appreciate you even more. The Al-Mighty will help you in some way or another. Good luck in your future career.

      Like

    2. Hariz Said (Liverpool)

      I never thought of it that way as a medical student. I will no longer study O&G while lamenting that I want to be a Paediatrician. I will use the opportunity to learn in order to be a safe doc for everyone. Thanks, you motivated me and I have finals this year

      Like

  24. Farah

    Assalamualaikum
    well said. my friends and I were talking about the exact same issue and the exactly same arguments even before i read this article. I guess most of the muslim women doctors are thinking along the same wavelength!
    its sad, really.. seeing all this stupid argument and petitions when there are lots and lots of other issues being left unnoticed.
    Its really hypocritical for people to care only of what’s beneath the belt when there are patient who dont even cover their aurah in ward, and didnt pray when their warded (since when having branula stops you from taking wudhu?)
    my only comfort is that even though this ‘religous’ people are still around, there are still many others who are even more religious and at the same time, more open minded to educate themselves about things they are not familiar with and do not just simply come to a conclusion.

    Like

  25. jimbo

    I have my OnG MO friends working when they are in their third trimester pregnant… doing oncall… 32 hours without sleep and doing surgery. i have my nurses walking around the ward looking after ‘your wives’ in a situation we called it SARAT MENGANDUNG and doing night shifts – 3 nurses in each ward with 20+ pregnant patients. Please people out there…. close your eyes..what if they are your mothers or your wives… how do you feel? tanggungjawab isteri yg bekerja sebegini bukan sahaja di tempat kerja..malah balik melayan suami dan anak2 lain….

    Like

  26. Hariz Said (Liverpool)

    Finally, a voice of reason. But, fall to deaf ears as the herd that likes to share things of facebook have forgotten the tradition of thinking and valuing the opinion of people involved in that field

    Like

  27. harap para doktor sudi baca dan buatlah penilaian anda apakah petakanya bila mana tiada langsung kawalan/kuatkuasa peraturan yang melindungi wanita muslimah yang melahirkan zuriatnya;seorang ummat Muhammad SAW.

    “Seorang doktor mestilah sentiasa memeriksa seorang pesakit sama ada lelaki atau wanita atau kanak-kanak, dengan kehadiran seorang peneman (chaperon) yang sentiasa hadir secara fizikal di bilik konsultasi tersebut, yang boleh melihat dan mendengar segala kejadian sepanjang pemeriksaan dijalankan.
    Ketetapan ini direkabentuk untuk membolehkan doktor meneruskan pemeriksaan klinikal dengan jelas dan tidak terganggu, sebagaimana yang dirasakan perlu untuk membuat diagnosis, tanpa kemudiannya perlu dia mempertahankan segala tindakan yang diambilnya.”

    Penulis pada asalnya berhasrat meneruskan tulisan bahagian dua Dilema Muslimah Bersalin. Petang tadi terbaca aduan seorang ibu bersalin kepada Prof Madya Dr Harlina tentang satu kejadian di dewan bersalin

    “Salam, Dr. Har….saya bersyukur kerana ketika saat melahirkan putera pertama saya disambut oleh doktor wanita….walau bagaimanapun….diberitahu oleh suami saya, ada seorang doktor lelaki yg sentiasa keluar masuk labour room ketika saya sedang meneran…tanpa berbuat apa2 hanya sekadar memerhati hingga timbul perasaan kurang senang dihati kami. Kemudiannya. ..setelah selamat bersalin, saya tertidur di dalam labour room sehingga terjaga dan terkejut melihat seorang doktor lelaki….seorang….tiada ditemani nurse atau bidan wanita…sedang melihat kesan jahitan saya! Dia memberi alasan sekadar memeriksa. Saya yang sedang kepenatan dan mengantuk akibat ubat penahan tidak mampu berkata apa!
    Atas pengalaman ini, juga selepas menonton rancangan Semanis Kurma yang dihostkan oleh ustazah Siti Nurbaiyah dan suaminya dalam episod Aurat Ketika Bersalin, membuatkan saya seperti dihantui oleh pengalaman 3 tahun yang sudah”

    “Friends of Dr Harlina Halizah Siraj – mohon adukan sebarang kejadian yang mencurigai esp kes spt ini – jgn takut…kami akan terus siasat & lindungi kerahsiaan pesakit kami. Next time – tanya doktor tu, where is your chaperon, doctor?
    (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Friends-of-Dr-Harlina-Halizah-Siraj)

    Penulis bimbang dengan kejadian seperti ini. Kalaulah benar doktor lelaki tersebut berbuat seperti didakwa, ia satu tragedi dan malapetaka. Memalukan dan mencalar kredibiliti dan integriti profesyen kedoktoran. Memeriksa kemaluan pesakit wanita dalam keadaan tidak sedar tanpa kehadiran ‘chaperon’ merupakan jenayah dan berdosa besar. Ini dikira mencabul kehormatan pesakit kerana darurah telah terangkat, dan hukum melihat kemaluan pesakit kembali seperti asal.

    Penulis semakin bimbang bila memikirkan apa motif doktor tersebut melakukan pemeriksaan jahitan ketika pesakit tidak sedar dan tanpa kehadiran ‘chaperon’. Apa yang dilakukan ketika pesakit tidak sedar, Allah sahaja yang tahu. Kalau bersangka baik mungkin ‘chaperon’ belum tiba dan dia sangkakan pesakit telah sedar. Namun jauh di sudut hati saya tidak mungkin begitu.

    Apa sahaja kemungkinan buruk boleh berlaku jika seorang lelaki walau setinggi mana imannya dan sehebat mana keprofesionalannya jika berhadapan dengan alat sulit wanita yang sedang tidur. Perbuatan cabul, rakam dan mengambil gambar pesakit dan kemaluannya boleh sahaja berlaku. Percayalah.

    Sabda Rasulullah S.A.W yang diriwayatkan oleh Bukhari: “Janganlah sesiapa dikalangan kamu (lelaki) berkhalwat dengan wanita yang bukan muhram antara keduanya melainkan sekiranya wanita tersebut ditemani oleh mahramnya”. (Hadis Riwayat al-Bukhari, no. 3006)

    Rasulullah saw telah bersabda yang maksudnya: “Mana-mana lelaki tidak akan berdua-duaan (berkhalwat) dengan perempuan, melainkan pasti syaitan akan menjadi yang ketiga”. (Riwayat At-Tirmidzi)

    Riwayat yang lain: “Demi Allah yang jiwaku berada dalam genggamanNya, tidaklah seseorang lelaki berkhalwat dengan seorang wanita melainkan syaitan akan mendatangi mereka berdua”.

    Penulis berharap kes seperti ini disiasat secara telus, adil dan tanpa prejudis.

    Keratan Akhbar Berita Harian pada 11 Nov 2011
    KUALA LUMPUR: Seorang juru x-ray mengaku tidak bersalah di Mahkamah Majistret Selayang di sini hari ini terhadap tuduhan mencabul kehormatan seorang penuntut kolej swasta, tiga bulan lalu.

    Amri Hamzah, 30, didakwa menggunakan kekerasan jenayah dengan niat untuk mencabul kehormatan gadis berumur 18 tahun itu di dalam bilik x-ray Hospital Selayang, Gombak di sini 4.45 petang, pada 14 Ogos.
    Dia didakwa mengikut Seksyen 354 Kanun Keseksaan yang membawa hukuman penjara maksimum 10 tahun atau denda atau sebat, atau mana-mana antara dua, jika sabit kesalahan.

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dilema-Muslimah-Bersalin/231197947058431?fref=ts

    Like

  28. Pingback: Opinion: We Want a Win-Win Solution (or at least, near win-win) « me and my life

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