Kimdonesia; I need to have a say.

I am not upset. No…

 

But my heart bleeds. And the force of the pain makes me short of breath.

****

To those who don’t know who Kimdonesia was, I will just give a brief introduction about her, the way I thought of her.

I found out about her a few months ago while I was searching in YouTube for videos of ‘reverts to Islam’. And stumbled upon her channel. I was excited to see this very young (17 years old) teenager who was fascinated with Indonesia when she had lived there two years ago. She wore hijab and practiced the religion while still living with her non-muslim family. I was excited to see that there are open-minded Australians out there, who would not ex-communicate their teenage child when the said child chose to believe. She was (still is) very famous in the You Tube among Muslims and even appeared on some international interviews over the radio and everything.  She made lots of videos about her life as a Muslim; she seemed to live it and breathe it that I was so proud and at the same time humbled by her dedication towards Islam eventhough she only just converted a year ago.  She also got a blog which I had linked to mine and I followed her progress in the short few months that I knew her.

Imagine my utter horror, when one day I was looking at my blog stats and noticed that one of the ‘search’ that somebody had done to reach to my blog was ‘Kimdonesia left Islam’. I was very shocked and angry at the unknown person who would do such search for I thought this must be the ultimate fitnah…But at the same time, I was curious about what had triggered the person to search for such topic. So, I clicked on Kimdonesia’s blog…and the result I got was : the blog’s gone, vanished. Like it never was.

So, I went to You Tube, and searched for her channel. Again, I met with the same unfortunate result. The channel was closed.

Forever?, I wondered, then.

I wondered what happened? I could not believe that she had left Islam.And until I found out for sure, I would not blog about my inner speculation then, lest I spread a fitnah. Besides, I was also busy with exams, but my mind was constantly disturbed by what other people been talking about her, even though at that time, Kimdonesia did not confirm anything.

You see, I have this policy in my life…that I will never believe an account of a third party unless the persons involved themselves tell me. (even then, we need to apply caution in our judgement). For example, I don’t go around judging SIS as ‘sesat’ unless I read it myself what their stands are in their own website regarding certain Islamic issues. I would not say ‘Astora Jabat is sesat’ if I have never read his own writing with my own eyes (and I still don’t think anyone can say he is sesat; who are you to judge?). I would not say Ustaz Asri is wahhabi, if I have never even heard his talk. I would not say anything as BIG as implying someone else’s faith is less than mine, UNLESS that person herself/himself say in no uncertain terms that something really is so.

In cases of ambiguity where a statement could be interpreted in thousand of different ways, I would take the safest route and took the kindest meaning I could ascribe to it. Because even though I was not always fair, but I wanted to be fair and I wanted to at least put some effort in being fair.

But after a few days of wondering what was the deal with Kimdonesia, I found out the video I put up there. She claimed in no uncertain terms that she has left Islam, and I was left with no ambiguity whatsoever.

I was shocked first. And then saddened by her decision.

I forgot my Paediatrics book for awhile and just sat there on my bed in bewilderment.  I thought, she was a very strong believer…like most reverts always are compared to the ‘inherited’ Muslims. She didn’t convert because she wanted to MARRY anyone, but rather because she actually saw Islam as the right way of life (or that was what I thought was the case). She was passionate about wearing hijab…even understood and defended the wearing of it in her blog. She was conscious about halal and non-halal food (was it Marsmallow that she blogged about?) and she went into a complete wardrobe change. I think her clothes were even more modest than mine. She did all the daily prayers, and she had fasted in her first (and only) Ramadhan and she had been reading a LOT of Islamic books and can quote hadeeths and knew about the basic hadeeths as any other average Muslims.

And then, THIS? This sudden de-conversion of her totally befuddled me.

And then, there seemed to be many, many Vlog in YouTube as a response to ‘Kimdonesia Left Islam’ video. One muslim brother even went so far as to blame the sisters for her having left Islam. It created some tension in the ummah (among those who are familiar with her).

I am not going to point fingers of blame here, on anyone. I would not say bad things to Kim, but rather I wanted to blog my response to what she said in the video. I always think that being emotional about any issues is counterproductive. Rather, you need to look at the issue rationally and realistically and counter them base on logical reasoning. You won’t win an argument by being malicious and saying “Go To Hell, you apostate.” or “F**k you, you fag!”. I mean, if you don’t like homosexuality, then address the issue of homosexuality reasonably; don’t be offensive and  don’t put a lable on the people just to make them angry. It’s counter productive and it’s childish!

I mean, if someone wants to criticize Islam, I am much more likely to have a certain respect towards the person who argued with me logically, rather than someone who showed me his middle finger and said “fuck off, Islam”  to me in the street. The same principle should be applied for every sensitive issues.

Now regarding what Kimdonesia had said:

1) Her dog died, and she went into deep depression and didn’t see any point to life anymore.

Dog is a man’s best friend, isn’s that what they say?

And this is a perfect example of how much a dog can influence your whole fate. When we are in an emotional state of mind, it becomes really hard to be objective about our reasoning.

But my question is, was it the death of the dog that had triggered her de-conversion? She never really said that it really was the reason…

From the video, I got the gist that it was not any praticular logical reason per se that made her de-converted, but rather a chain of events and emotional turmoil that had led her to de-convert, Allah knows best.

I mean, she did not de-convert because someone had come up with a better religion, or because someone had logically argued with her about Islam. She is too smart and too knowledgeable now about Islam that NONE of the usual media lies could be used to sway her out of the religion. She knew that women are not less than men, she knew that we did not cover our head  in a ‘towel’ just because we are oppressed, she knew that the concept of God in Islam, that God is one, has more clarity of truth than the trinity of Christianity which remained a mystery till these days.

But what made her de-convert was a chain of events that had an impact on her emotionally. Her dog died, and then she began thinking about the fate of her non-Muslim family if they were thrown in the hell fire.

Perfectly, understandable thoughts and anxieties.

Who does not love their pet? (even though I wouln’t know since I never have one). Who does not love their family and want the best for them in the hereafter? Even our prophet Muhammad S.A.W was greatly saddened that her kind and loving Uncle died as a non-Muslim.

But these are emotional events….none of them should be made as a reason for conversion or de-conversion.

However, it can become a trigger that can lead you to the truth, or away from the truth.

My friend died in a car crash when I was 19, and THAT jolted me into learning more about Islam. Even though I was already a practicing Muslim since birth, but my faith is made much stronger afterwards because I began to research more about Islam. And Islam become important to me…before, it was just something I did as a Muslim.

But just because my friend died in car crash and I was in a shock, would that make Islam be more logical, all of a sudden? Or would that make Islam less relevant? Who knows which pathway the event could trigger us to choose? But whatever the pathway is,  the path was not any more true or any more false than it was previously. Islam has always been the truth, regardless of whether or not I was in a shock after my friend died. Her death was just a trigger for me to THINK, nothing more and nothing less.

In Kimdonesia’s case, that trigger led her away from Islam.

But you will be surprised that in another person’s case, his dog’s death was the reason he stumbled into Islam. It’s amazing how the same triggers, could lead us to choose two different paths. May Allah in his infinite wisdom guide us through all our emotional turmoils in the best way possible. Below, I put two videos about how an Australian guy found Islam after his dog died that led to an intellectual journey.

2) Her family will be thrown into the hell fire

She mentioned that she could not understand why perfectly good and kind people would go to hell just because they are not Muslims. She felt that the concept of God in Islam was different than what she wanted for God to be…

It’s amazing that a lot of people are confused about this issue. It’s true that non-believers would not get into Paradise…but there’s a condition attached to it. The non-believer would not enter paradise, only after the truth of Islam is presented upon her, yet she still refused.

A Kafiir is translated as someone who rejects the truth.

If a non-Muslim has never known the true Islam, and refused to enter Islam because she hates terrorism, because she hates women oppression, because she hates wife-beating….then, that does not mean she was rejecting Islam or the truth. Because the terrorism, the women oppression and the wife beating is NOT Islam…so not entering Islam base on that reasons are not wrong.

That’s why there’s a concept of dakwah…so that in the day of judgement no one should be able to say, I have never heard of Islam or I only heard the worse of Islam and that was why I did not convert. That was the reason prophets were sent…so that no disbelievers can say, “Oh God, why didn’t you send us a Messenger to guide us?”

Finding God is an insticnt. If we have always been a Muslim, we probably don’t understand that. But if you talk to foreigners (as I have been fortunate enough to have Australian acquaintances) it will become apparent to you that everyone instinctively seek religion…they keep on questioning and questioning. How else do you think people convert to Islam or find Islam, at last?It’s because once they have developed an abstract thinking in their teenage years, these questions become important. They needed to know!

But what happened was, people got distracted. They got distracted by the booze/alcohol, by the fun of drugs, by sex, and then for awhile they ignored that instinct to seek God. But in their more sober state, they would start thinking again and do some casual research over the net. And then they got distracted again. And the same cycle goes on and on and on. Until, if they are fortunate, they meet with a life-impacting event that truly make them think long enough and search more about the purpose of life.

If you see the party-going mat sallehs and the drunk people on the street, do not think that in their more sober state, they do not do any thinking whatsoever. They do. It just did not seem that way when you saw them in a party. You only saw the happy faces and the racy jokes and the freedom of young age. But when they are alone, in their room, they WOULD start thinking. For those who have always had religion, they did not understand what the non-believers are going through. It’s  ALWAYS at the back of their mind. I have Australian friends and even the most flirtatious, seductive, fun party-goers speculate about God…

So, in the first place, nature had given us the instinct to seek God. And in the second place, we are given an intellectual mind to weigh and compare between many religions. And in the third place, there are always events and happenings that would trigger us to keep on searching. So, when you think about it, life is a journey to search God. And the end result is either you find God or you don’t. And along the journey, this life provides us with lots of distractions… in the form of exams maybe, or our love interests, or our obsessions and hobbies, our family and kids, our goals and ambition…

The game is, whether or not you can USE that hobby, whether or not you can USE that ambition to further your journey in your quest to seek God. Some people made a hobby of writing….do you make your writing as tool of dakwah? Some people wants to become a doctor, do you make yourself as a Muslim doctor who are concerned about ethical issues surrounding the medical world? Whether or not you make sure your kids follow the religion…

That’s why as a Muslim we have to make sure these things, that become distractions for a non-muslim, can be turn into Ibadah. If not, we are a failure in life! Wake up! And think about what you are doing day in and day out; you don’t know how long your journey would last!

In the case of Kimdonesia’s family…who is to know when or if they will ever convert. Maybe they are still undergoing the journey. If you search in You Tube, a grandma of 80 years old can convert…imagine 80 years of SIN gone, washed away. Allah is MOST kind, and no one will be unfairly judged. If Kimdonesia truly believe that her family is kind and good people, then maybe one day they will convert. For Kimdonesia to turn away from Islam, on the basis of her family MIGHT be turn into hell fire because they are not Muslims NOW, it’s a preposterous decision. In fact, she should be the ONE to show her family the right way.

I have blogged in one of my previous post about Sister Roslinda who became a muslim after her husband had converted THREE years previously. But Kimdonesia only started being a Muslim about a year ago….who is to say what would happen three years down the track?

Now, I would present to you the type of person, who in spite of KNOWING the truth, would turn away from the truth. And these are the people I meant who would go to hell fire. This is a real conversation I had with a tutorial mate of mine. It was triggered by a discussion in my sexual counselling tutorial about homosexuality and abortion. And then, like discussing all contorversial and ethical issues, of course, it then became a discussion of religion! In this convesation, S is an Australian who practices Hindu.

S: So, is it true that you believe those who are not muslims, would go to hell fire?

Me: (my first instict was to say…Christianity has the same concept too, why aren’t you attacking that religion? But that kind of reasoning would not do anything to convey the truth of my religion, so I did not go down that pathway)

Yes, that’s what we believe. Those who are not Muslims would not enter paradise. But we believe that if the non-Muslims have never heard of Islam, or never knew the True Islam, other than the lies depicted by the media, then she/he would be forgiven.

S: But what if they knew about Islam, and still did not want to become a Muslim?

Me: Maybe, that’s because they knew about Islam…but not the real Islam. If you don’t want to become Muslim because you don’t agree with terrorism and all the other stigmas depicted by the media, then that doesn;t mean you reject Islam. Because that’s not Islam. The person is only responsible on the decision base on what she knew…not what she didn’t know.

S: Okay, so what if they knew the true Islam and is convinced that it’s the truth, but just does not want to become a Muslim.

Me: (I was quite speechless. WHY wouldn’t you become a Muslim, when you know it’s the truth.)

I don’t understand. You mean the person is convinced about Islam after knowing the true Islam, and yet still does not want to become a Muslim?

S: Yes…what if she just doesn’t think that kind of lifestyle suits her?

Me: (I took a deep breath) Then, she would not enter paradise.

See? At the end, I just had to say that.

That’s exactly the kind of kafir we talk about! The fact that S could think in her mind that kind of imaginary person who would choose to be that way, meant that there ARE human beings who are like that. Who knows the truth, but doesn’t want to do it.

In a smaller scale, we could see this in our daily lives. We KNOW that not covering ourselves properly is wrong…but we just doesn’t want to comply. Just because we don’t want to.

Or, we KNOW that drinking alcohol is BAD, not just for your religion but also for your health (I am a medical student and I KNOW this!!), but we just don’t want to comply.

We knew having unprotected sexual intercourse can predispose someone to STD but judging by the the number of STD patients presenting to sexual health clinic, people just DON’T comply on what they knew but on what they FEEL.  So if you can imagine this thing…then you can understand that there exist some people who are convinced of Islam, but just doesn’t want to go that way.

And in the face of such arrogance…how can you think the hell fire is not fair? We are not talking about people who misunderstood about Islam…but people who have been guided by instinct to seek religion, by events in their life to research and choose religion, by interactions with Muslims to be interested in Islam…and at last after convinced of the truth… STILL reject Islam. Is the hell fire not fair or more than fair??

3)God in Islam is not what she feels God should be.

If the God in the Quran is not what Kimdonesia imagine God should be, it does not make God act any differently. Just because she feels that God should be this way and not that way, it doesn’t make the One God any less than HE would be. In fact, we are the one who should comply to the standard that God has set for us. How come we see it fit to put standards to God and base on our own personal preference, wants God to be this way and that way. How about if another person have another different standard…and the next person have another different standard about how God should be and not be…

So, it’s RIDICULOUS to reject Islam just because we don’t get it our way.

4) She said “My life does not need religion”.

Good luck to you, then.

5)She’s happy without Islam. This is not just a phase. She didn’t think she’ll ever come back.

I still remember one of her posts in her blog when she said something like this, (I don’t remember it properly) “To those who think that my conversion to Islam is just a phase, then it will serve them right when I am greying and old and still practice the religion. “

I was very proud, at that time, at her level of conviction. But she had gone back on her words then and had proven that indeed her conversion to Islam was a phase.

I am just wondering whether or not this recent development could also be a phase. Whatever it is, I had prayed for her during her earlier days of de-conversion. For some reason, I have stopped.


8 ) Muslims friends had ditched her after her de-conversion

I guess, a lot of people would feel emotionally about her de-conversion, especially those who are very close to her. I don’t know how I would act if I have a close friend who has rejected Islam.

I see myself as trying to convince her to return to the true way of life. But if after all effort has been done and there’s nothing left to do, what then?

Even if I did not ditch her, our lives would be different. There would always be some awkward moments. I would always argue with her…mostly because I care about her. But she would not see it that way.

How else can we be friends?

Kimdonesia mentioned that friendship has nothing to do with religion.

Really??? Think about it….

I mean, I do have Australian friends; my tutorial mates, my clinic mates…I am friendly with them, some of them I chat with regularly.But my friendship with them are connected by the fact that we shared the same class, we went through the same hardship as a med student, we understood the stupid sexual jokes when learning about Obstetrics and Gynae, and we have the same hatred towards the same teacher.If we don’t share that…would I be friends with them? Isn’t that how friendship is…that once you move on with your life, you may contact one another just to catch up…but as time pass by, your emotional connection become watered down, less intense though still friendly.

Some people have friends base on having the same hobbies. Or These are the friends I take to go clubbing together. Or these are the friends I study with. Or these are the friends I met at the Archery club.

Among Muslim friends, my number one factors in friendship is based on religion. We have the same religion. We pray together, we celebrate Eid together, we fasted together, we break our fast together, we went to the mosque together…and if that connection is gone, what is left of the friendship. I might say hi every now and then, I suppose, but then what?

So, really, if friendship is not based on religion…then on what SHOULD it be based on, that makes it more valid to be based on other than religion?

I mean among my Australian friends, it would be based on hobbbies and not religion…so in the first place not having the same religion, was not something we had in mind when starting a friendship.

But when the friendship began with a lot of factors…the same religion, the same hobbies, the same studies….then not having the same religion later DOES impact on the friendship, whether you like it or not.

I guess, my feeling is, friendship is based on a lot of things…but if one of the things is religion, then that is the most important basis. So much so that if it were present during the start of a relationship, but not present NOW, then the friendship would be NOTHING!!

You may think that “But it shouldn’t be so, yadda, yadda, yadda.” but it IS so. Because, if friendship needs to have a basis on, then can anyone give a valid justification why it should be this but not that? No one can.

But you can look at the trend. That once someone has gone out of their orginal religion, a strong feeling of discontentment would creep on the relationship…UNLESS if religion has never been an important factor in the first place. And this is not just in Islam, but also true in every other religion.

 

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May Allah guide us all.

May we always bear in mind that just because we are born Muslim, we may not stay that way forever. If you don’t work on your faith…it’s useless. Before you knew it, your daily prayers become nothing but habit rather than an act of worship. Before you realize it, donning a hijab is a fashion statement rather than an act of obedience.

You are guided ONLY if you are willing to follow the guidance. Why do you ask for guidance and then rebel by not following them, and then blame the guide?

To fellow Muslims out there, never be too complacent.

Like Kimdonesia rightly pointed out, it’s AMAZING how quickly we change our heart.

10 thoughts on “Kimdonesia; I need to have a say.

  1. Assalamu’Alaikum,

    It was unfortunate but born-Muslims can never understand what it is like to convert to a faith whose poster boy is Osama bin Laden.

    In any case, her Muslim friends are wrong to leave her. In the story of Abdul Qadir al-Jilani in Sir al-Asrar, when a Shaykh left Islam, Shaykh Abdul Qadir admonished the murids for abandoning their Shaykh in his hour of need.

    No apostasy need be permanent. We are given rope until the Day of Sorting out. If her Muslim friends were truly her friends, they would help her by just being there. If they are friends because of her faith, they should still be friends because of THEIR faith.

    The process of conversion takes a lifetime. I taught in masajid, I handled apostasy cases, and yet I almost left Islam.

    Knowledge itself is no barrier when the Ka’abah of the heart is broken by whatever reason. It is then that the journey of faith truly begins. When each and every one of us tested such that we asked if Allah has forsaken us (al-Ankabut 1 – 5?).

    Wassalam

    Like

  2. afizaazmee

    Waalaikumussalam sister,

    I agree with what you said…that those who are born Muslims can never understand how it’s like for those who convert. I have great respect for them.

    But all of us who are born Muslim also has undergone the same journey of rediscovering our faith…it’s not always a passive process for us too. But I do agree that for the converts, the journey towards rediscovery must be a hundred times more difficult than it would be for us.

    I am not saying that it’s right for her Muslim friends to leave her. I am just saying that it’s understandable. I am just dis-agreeing with Kimdonesia with her statement that “Friendship has nothing to do with religion”.

    And you can see I put quite a lengthy explanation about how religion, if it was there in the start of a relationship and was important for the parties involved in a relationship, then it WOULD affect the relationship later. That’s all.

    Salam.

    Like

  3. just boarding

    they who convert not because of Allah are worst than the unbelievers.

    there are many reverts in the world, and there are many munafiqeen too…why bother waste your time with this one

    Like

  4. shakira frank

    She was only 17 years old when she converted and now 19. Did you see her blogs and videos full with Hello Kitty and childish things? She’s young and immature. Islam was clearly a teenage fad for her, a way to rebel and show her identity as a teenager, and to get attention from people. A white girl in a hijab does get a lot of attention. She got fame and praise from people all over the world.

    I know someone who converted later in life then left Islam for the faith they were raised in, and now is trying to make a big show of how much they despise Islam, in order to distance themself from it and reassure themselves. She is doing the same by trashing all her former beliefs. She feels totally insecure about what she has decided to do, and so you see her lashing out at Islam, just to feel better about herself and get more attention from the “ex-Muslim” internet crowd. It doesn’t bother me or anger me, it makes me pity her.

    If you leave a faith you say you love because your elderly dog dies, how strong can your faith be? And where is the rational thought there? “My dog dies, I am sad, therefore there is no God?” Maybe you can be excused to have that kind of reaction when you are 5 years old, but a literate young woman coming to such a conclusion? It shows her immaturity. Bad things in life are a test of faith! A test from God is a sign God is watching over you.

    It is sad that people are harassing her and sending her rude comments or threats. That is wrong. Just leave her be.

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  5. Nameless

    I find this very interesting topic, as I had similar experience around 10 years ago. I’m very grateful that it was before showy internet- conversions to any religion, before Youtube, when private matters of faith were kept mostly, well, private.

    I was raised as Christian, but rejected the religion out of rebelliousness as a teen and later got interested about Islam. There was a time in my life too, when I thought I would pray five times a day for rest of my life and wear a hijab – but I gave it up after one year, which is very common amongst converts. I’m too tied in to Christianity in my culture and way of thinking. Changing religion is for anyone like changing your culture and pulling out your roots.

    What I find the most troubling in the case of “Kimdonesia” is the total lack of privacy in her spiritual life. I feel sorry for both her and her family. Its sad that she became online celebrity just because of her religion and that she now advertises her equally strong atheism online as well. Our faith is a a matter between us and God, not between us and some online audience.

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  6. WaterBearer

    Hello. You are probably not going to publish this comment, but I would really respect your honesty and integrity if you did. So thank you in advance if you choose to publish this. I do not agree with your post and this is my dissent.

    When someone says “my concept of God is not in line with Quranic concept,” I completely agree with them. I DO NOT think God would ever be like the Allah of Quran. Muslims perhaps believe in their view, but I also believe in mine. You may not understand it, but that is why this is called Faith and conviction. I CANNOT agree with a God who would push me into Hellfire for eternity because my heart was not convinced. I have read about the life of Muhammad, Islam’s Prophet, and I do not agree with his convictions. I am simply not convinced that he was the messenger of God (he probably had hallucinations in my humble opinion) but if Allah really existed, how is it reasonable that He would push me into Hell for an ETERNITY for not believing? If God endowed me wtih a mind, heart and conscience, how can He punish me for using them? I am not a clone that my mind must be convinced by whatever convinced you. If we were all supposed to think alike, God would never endow us with different opinions.

    Simply put, I am a believer in Karma, reincarnation, detachment and self-liberation as means of soul’s journey in this universe. Muslims may think I am polytheist, etc. etc. but that does not affect me. I do not agree with the Abrahamic concept of Judgement day, punishment for disbelievers, or paradise filled with worldly goods. Just think, does one’s soul really need large fruiting trees, flowing rivers of wine and honey, fowls of every kind, domes the size of the distance between Damascus and Jerusalem, and dark-eyed houris in paradise??? Isn’t this a little worldly? How is this spiritual?

    My last question is, why is only shirk (polytheism) or atheism the one unforgivable sin in Islam? Murder, rape, hatred, violence, bigotry, pettiness, greed, jealousy, lust are all human sins and flaws, but they all seem to be forgivable — but not freedom of thought and conscience?

    I think KimDonesia was looking for a concept of God that was not so afflicted with worries of whether or not believers were believing in Him. That concept of God is decidedly human, not Divine. I hope one day she, and all of us, find inner spirituality in whatever way that pleases us. But that doesn’t mean that the only spiritual, meaningful way to live life is thru Islam (or even my way). Thank you.

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  7. Hey there water bearer. You did me a great injustice by saying that I will ‘most probably’ would not publish your comment. FYI, the only comment that I did not publish are the ones filled with filthy languages. Anyone is free to disagree with me in the comments section providing they are doing it intellectually, and with proper language.

    In other words, I banned all sorts of swearing!

    You have passed the criteria for your comment to be published.

    Actually in Quran, there’s one verse that says ‘there is no compulsion in Islam’.
    God does not force you to believe in him. And whether or not you believe or not believe, you and I do not know whether or not you will REALLY be punished. I don’t even know whether I will attain paradise too.

    The terms kafir means “the one who knows, but rejects the truth”.

    Those who know deep in their heart that Islam is the correct way of life yet refuses to embrace it because “I love my freedom more than anything else”…those are the ones who will be punished. Because it is equivalent to rejecting God while knowing deep in your heart that God exists and has made Islam as the way of life.

    For those who are not convinced of Islam like yourself….and you are rejecting Islam simply because you can’t intellectually grasp that it is the only true way of life….who knows what awaits you in the hereafter. At least, you are not like the arrogant; one who knows but reject the truth.

    You might be surprised. How could someone when convinced of something, refused to acknowledge it? But you can see the manifestation of that arrogance everywhere.
    1)One who knows drinking alcohol is bad for your health (medical students and doctors), yet can’t be bothered to change their habits anyway.
    2)The IV drug users…they all know what they are doing is wrong. But some can reject that piece of truth and blabber out some justification or another.

    There are many people out there who know what they are doing is wrong but persist in doing it simply because they are too arrogant to admit that they are too weak to change their ways. So they decide to simply take the easy way out and say “I just don’t believe in this.”

    For your sake, I hope when you say you are not convinced of Islam, it was not because of arrogance.
    Good bye.

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  8. Shiva :)

    This is a general reponse to some of the responders, and to the original post. It is not meant to support KimDonesia, nor is it meant to support the person who originally posted. It is simply my best attempt at an objective view.
    As far as I understand, she did not leave Islam because of her dog’s death, but rather her dog’s death was a trigger for her to think about religion more deeply. So, trying to step on Kim by calling her iilogical is not going to prove her wrong, because you guys are not being logical either. There are many people of all ages, including people well into their adult years, who have left religion all together. They are not immature, so using the age game isn’t going to make you seem logical either. In fact, logic is a main reason why people leave Islam. Islam, to non-Muslims who later convert, sounds and presents itself as a logical religion, as well as an emotionally catering one. Then, they become so enticed and so wrapped in religion that they gulp it all up way too fast. It’s only a matter of time before they hear an Islamic law, and then several more, that make them think twice, then thrice, then again and again…
    It was mentioned that it’s ridiculous to reject Islam just because God in Islam doesn’t sound like the God she wants, or meet her desires. If so, it is then just as ridiculous to enter into Islam because Islam sounds like the religion a person wants. Again, I’m asking you to review your logic. If there truely is a God, then He must be a logical God. I’m sure no one disagrees with that. And true, God definately understands all things, knows all things, and has not imparted all of His knowledge upon creatures… However, it is only logical that a logical God would impart enough reason, ability, and knowledge upon humans that they could defend His religion not just by emotion and fear (which are in fact the main forms of religious preaching) but through logic and actual, sound proof. It is often so that religious law seems utterly illogical to people. For the people of logic and science, we are no longer in an age where “miracles” and looking at nature or history can scare us and turn us into kneeling worshipers. So what I’m saying is, the idea that it’s ridiculous for anyone to leave Islam because it doesn’t meet one’s desires is not always a sound arguement, for it may be that the questioner is indeed in want of and desires LOGIC, REASON, and furthermore, yes, a FEELING that what he/she is doing and believes in is CORRECT. These are all important and worthy reasons for question anything and to either enter into or leave a religion.
    There is nothing wrong with emotional events or times triggering thought. Just because one is going through an emotional time does not mean he/she is acting, in all ways, upon emotion. It is perfectly possible that an emotional occurance could lead a person into thinking deeper and more soundly. Emotion and thought are inseperable; the way our brain and body function and work is totally inseperable from emotion. Why do you perceive the person whose dog died and then converted to Islam to be reasonable and enlightened, but yet the one who left Islam to be illogical? Kim didn’t present her apostacy in a logical manner, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t truely think about it thoroughly, and that certainly doesn’t mean that all people who deconvert did so based on emotion alone.
    What truely is acting upon emotion, however, is the act of resulting to insults, sarcasm, and titling people just because they disagree with you. Who are you to call anyone a munafiq, kafir, or anything else? If there is anything this world has taught me, if there is anything science and psychology can teach us, it is that human judgement of other fellow humans is often utterly unjustified and quite false. This is because we truely don’t own the knowledge of all that goes on in other people’s lives, or the thoughts that go on in their minds, or the influences they have, or the illnesses they might have, or the different method of thought they might have. This is why it is much more reasonable to observe objectively. Do not rush to insult or judge people. Human beings do things for many, many different reasons, and we cannot possibly know all of them. It may be that one action seems totally wrong to you, but totally right to another person. The only way to sort it out properly is through reasoning, not through judgment and belittling, nor through pride and closed-mindedness. There are many things wrong with you too, and with all of us, but not all your wrongs are your own fault. Not all our faults are our own fault. And even when a fault of ours is truely our own fault, then still, it does not call for insult and judgment. Too may religious scholars and lecturers do I see spreading their harshness and judgment. If that is the way of Islam, no wonder people leave religion!
    It is not true that a person who grew up Muslim cannot understand the life and challenges of a convert. I myself have the experience of a convert, yet a tiny bit of the experience of a person who grew up with a religious family. You do not have to literally be in my shoes to understand me, you only have to be in my shoes through your mind. I don’t consider understanding and experience to necessarily be one and the same. Just because I have never felt the pain of natural child birth does not mean I cannot understand that it hurts really bad, or that I cannot understand the women who explain their pain to me. You cannot experience everything, and certainly throughout life you will need to use your understanding, even of things you have never done before or experienced, in order to get through life and succeed.
    Be kind, even to people you think are your enemies. This is among the best ways to avoid hurting yourself, hurting others, spreading hate, and it is among the best ways to attract people to yourself and your ideas as well.
    Forgive others. Forgive yourself too. Reality is not always as it seems, so be calm about people’s decisions, and don’t rush to look down at them. We are all human beings after all.
    God bless.
    And God knows best.

    Like

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